ACPI /Standard PC /Session drummer midi fx screwup in SONAR

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Hello there, I have a couple of problems that some of you might have solutions to. It's a couple of things and I considered splitting them into several topics, but they're all kind of interrelated. This will be the size of a small novella, but be it...:
I'm kind of a newbie to the whole computer recording thing, so there's a lot of stuff I'm fairly clueless about. A while ago, Computer Music Magazine wrote in their "Sequencer Tips" section about Standard PC vs. ACPI (Advanced Configuration and Power Interface) setup, leaving the impression that the latter really hampers PC performance. They also gave instruction as to how to change the configuration to Standard PC if you have Windows XP (which I do), and it sounded like a breeze - just go to the control panel, click on the "Computer" entry, select "ACPI", right click, select "Update Driver, Slect from List, "choose Standard PC". Up to this point, it's all as they describe it, but from then on - CM says "the computer will reboot and reinstall all of your hardware, assigning each item to individual IRQs". Yeah right - no such luck for me. There's all kins of screwups, the screen resolution changes, Windows asks for the french (!!!) version of the driver for my matrox graphics card, doesn't find drivers for several pieces of hardware, and, worst of all, does not detect my soundcard (audigy 2 platinum) anymore :cry: . After resetting my computer to its initial state (which was a mess to, because windows renames some folders), I had to reinstall SONAR 2.0 (I don't remember any more now why that was the case, but anyway, that's what I did). It found all the projects alright, but since then I have a small problem with the Session Drummer Midi effect: It won't play any more as soon as there is an audio track with a recording on it; it starts for one beat or so and then immediately stops. Strangely enough, as soon as there is an Audio track armed for recording, it will :help: . So, yeah, I can work around it that way, but it seems wrong, and I'm afraid I will run into some other problem somewhere down the road...
So, here are my questions, and I would be very grateful if anybody had a good answer for any of these:
1) Is the difference between Standard PC/ACPI configuration really that big that I should have the Standard PC configuration (CM says its a big problem for Cubase SX; how about SONAR?). CM refers to the problem that an ACPI computer will route IRQ assignments to only one IRQ, even if others are free (I don't even really know what an IRQ is :? )
2) Will a "Standard PC" setup have negative effects on other features on my PC (I would imagine there ís a reason why regular PCs aer setup in ACPI mode)
3)If I should decide I NEED the "Standard PC" setup; how do I do that properly??? Is there a way to tell windows where that d#%! soundcard is?
4)Does anybody have a suggestion what's wrong with my session drummer midi effect?
5) This concerns performance: I used to be pretty happy with the performance of my computer until I got iZotope Trash and Ozone; I am absolutely ecstatic about the sound of these plugins, but I find them quite taxing on my CPU. My processor is an AMD Athlon XP2000+ with 1 Gig of DDR RAM (I just upgraded from 512 M, following advice from iZotope). If I run four tracks and three Isotope trash plugins (two guitar, one for bass :) - that's kind of the minimum), my CPU is running at close to 40 % - even processed as mono, with speaker simulation down to low quality (5 on the scale). Is that normal? Ozone 3 is giving my PC a hard time, too, and kind of in a strange way; some of the presets, particualrily the "VOcal Treatment" one, seem to run on average at about 30%, which is O.K., but there are frequent sudden spikes which jack up CPU usage to over 50%, with accompanying pops and clicks. Is that normal? Occasionally, during tweaking of these high CPU demand presets, my computer crashes (yes, the computer, not just SONAR - I get a short hello from my motherboard, and then the PC starts to reboot.. :shock: :cry: ).
Whew... enough ... any comments?
Alex

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Aaaaaarrgggg too many questions, not enough paragraphs.....

And you havent said which OS you're using! Or soundcard. Or whether you;re using WDM or ASIO...



1) Is the difference between Standard PC/ACPI configuration really that big that I should have the Standard PC configuration (CM says its a big problem for Cubase SX; how about SONAR?). CM refers to the problem that an ACPI computer will route IRQ assignments to only one IRQ, even if others are free (I don't even really know what an IRQ is )

IRQ's are sort of way for devices to ask for a slice of the 'action', so it can do stuff. But there's a limit on how many unique devices can ask directly. ACPI is a way around that limit.'

Generally, Standard PC is better for audio card behaviour. However XP is generally much better than other versions of Windows running with ACPI, so its not as critical. But it seems some soundcards seem to be far less problematic in Standard mode.


2) Will a "Standard PC" setup have negative effects on other features on my PC (I would imagine there ís a reason why regular PCs aer setup in ACPI mode)

Nope, none. However to get it to power off when you shutdown you have to install the older NT power managament system

3)If I should decide I NEED the "Standard PC" setup; how do I do that properly??? Is there a way to tell windows where that d#%! soundcard is?

The best way (and the only sensible way, IMO) is to reinstall windows from scratch. When you do so, and it asks you to hit F6 to install 'other devices', hit F5. Thats F-five!!!! Then choose Standard PC.

http://support.microsoft.com/default.as ... -US;299340

4)Does anybody have a suggestion what's wrong with my session drummer midi effect?

Sorry, no. But I doubt if its directly related to the ACPI thing.


5) This concerns performance: I used to be pretty happy with the performance of my computer until I got iZotope Trash and Ozone;... Is that normal?

These are both very CPU-intensive plugins, so I'd guess its normal.

Try bouncing tracks more often.

Occasionally, during tweaking of these high CPU demand presets, my computer crashes (yes, the computer, not just SONAR - I get a short hello from my motherboard, and then the PC starts to reboot..

That shouldnt really happen. It might be a problem with your soundcard drivers flaking out under excessive load... how low are your latency setttings...?
my other modular synth is a bugbrand

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Hi whyterabbyt,
that was a fast response - thanks! I just checked the forum; I guess somebody posted something related just before me.
Srry about the lack of paragraphs; won't happen again;

my soundcard is an audigy 2 platinum; running WDM drivers.

Latency as low as it goes - 10ms? I'm writing from my work computer - can't look it up right now (and don't have an internet at home - there I still live in the 20th century).

Setup from scratch, hm? Will I have to reinstall all the programs after that too, or will windows find these on my harddrive?
Sorry about my ignorance....
Cheers
Alex

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whyterabbyt wrote:2) Will a "Standard PC" setup have negative effects on other features on my PC (I would imagine there ís a reason why regular PCs aer setup in ACPI mode)

Nope, none. However to get it to power off when you shutdown you have to install the older NT power managament system
Oh oh oh! How do I do that one? I've been looking for that solution for quite some time! I like being able to hit the power button and it automatically starts the power down sequence for you. REal handy when you have multiple machines and a KVM. B)

Devon
Simple music philosophy - Those who can, make music. Those who can't, make excuses.
Read my VST reviews at Traxmusic!

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DevonB wrote: Oh oh oh! How do I do that one? I've been looking for that solution for quite some time! I like being able to hit the power button and it automatically starts the power down sequence for you. REal handy when you have multiple machines and a KVM. B)

Devon
Here's a good reference article on shutdown issues. You might want to start with step #10.

http://www.aumha.org/a/shutdown.htm


JD

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flugel45 wrote:
DevonB wrote: Oh oh oh! How do I do that one? I've been looking for that solution for quite some time! I like being able to hit the power button and it automatically starts the power down sequence for you. REal handy when you have multiple machines and a KVM. B)

Devon
Here's a good reference article on shutdown issues. You might want to start with step #10.

http://www.aumha.org/a/shutdown.htm


JD
:( Been down this road. When I did have ACPI enabled, it would shut down automatically. Now that I switched to Standard PC mode, I get the 'It's now ok to shut down your computer' and it sits there. All the checkboxes for turning off are NOT there, or are already checked. :? That's why Rabbyt's comment of installing the old NT version of it might be my answer.

Devon
Simple music philosophy - Those who can, make music. Those who can't, make excuses.
Read my VST reviews at Traxmusic!

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DevonB wrote:
flugel45 wrote:
DevonB wrote: Oh oh oh! How do I do that one? I've been looking for that solution for quite some time! I like being able to hit the power button and it automatically starts the power down sequence for you. REal handy when you have multiple machines and a KVM. B)

Devon
Here's a good reference article on shutdown issues. You might want to start with step #10.

http://www.aumha.org/a/shutdown.htm


JD
:( Been down this road. When I did have ACPI enabled, it would shut down automatically. Now that I switched to Standard PC mode, I get the 'It's now ok to shut down your computer' and it sits there. All the checkboxes for turning off are NOT there, or are already checked. :? That's why Rabbyt's comment of installing the old NT version of it might be my answer.

Devon
Maybe it also depends on your motherboard. All I know is I was set up in Standard PC mode (from scratch, Win2000) and had the same shutdown problem you have. Still, I found the APM checkbox, and was able to check/uncheck the setting (can't remember which) and it solved the problem.

JD

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ACPI must have "some" good things about it I would think. That's why Bill invented it.

I've been using Sonar 1, then 2 and now 3 (with all the upgrades & patches in between) and never had any issues with ACPI. As WR said. If you HAVE to change, re-install the whole toot.

On the normal DAW PC you should not have IRQ issues. I now have a DAW with soundcard (DMX) & graphics card (Geforce) and Windows XP had no problem finding unique IRQs for them.

The session drummer issue may be a registry problem. Sonar sometimes have this if you do anything that corrupts the registry in any way (like what it sounds like you did). Try to do this:

NOTE: This is a quote from an email from Cakewalk. Follow at own risk, but it solved certain problems registry related for me.


>> Eric,
>> Try this:
>>
>> a) Completely un-install SONAR from your computer. This is normally
>> done from Start | Programs | Cakewalk. This will not remove any of
>> your files or audio data.
>>
>> b) To make sure nothing else is running while reinstalling SONAR in
>> step 'e', choose Start | Run and type MSCONFIG. Click OK, choose
>> Selective Startup, then uncheck the Load Startup Group Items box.
>> Click OK, and restart Windows. You can always recheck that box at a
>> later time. In Win 2000/XP, click Ctrl+Alt+Del and manually End Task
>> on the items you don't need running. Restart your computer.
>>
>> c) Click the Windows Start button and select Run. At the prompt type
>> REGEDIT and click OK.
>> Backup your Registry before making edits - you do this by clicking the
>> Registry menu, Export Registry File.
>> Now delete the following Registry keys
>> HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Cakewalk Music Software
>> HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Cakewalk Music Software
>>
>> Please note that this will remove any effects presets and key bindings
>> you may have made in Cakewalk. You can back up those registry keys
>> separately if you like.
>>
>> d) Delete the files AUD.INI and TTSSEQ.INI from the SONAR program
>> folder.
>>
>> e) Restart your computer, then reinstall SONAR.
>>
>> This should eliminate any software irregularities that are causing
>> your problem, but let us know if it does not.
>>
>>

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flugel45 wrote:Maybe it also depends on your motherboard. All I know is I was set up in Standard PC mode (from scratch, Win2000) and had the same shutdown problem you have. Still, I found the APM checkbox, and was able to check/uncheck the setting (can't remember which) and it solved the problem.

JD
Like I said, that system will ACPI works exactly as described, it's just switching to Standard PC screwed it up. :?

Devon
Simple music philosophy - Those who can, make music. Those who can't, make excuses.
Read my VST reviews at Traxmusic!

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Devon, you actually need to install the legacy power management stuff as a new device. Try the stuff at step (5) of this page:

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=810903
my other modular synth is a bugbrand

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whyterabbyt wrote:Devon, you actually need to install the legacy power management stuff as a new device. Try the stuff at step (5) of this page:

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=810903
Thanks! I'll give that a whirl. It's an Asus P4T533-C motherboard, and I'm pretty darn sure it's ACPI compliant, considering the power down routine worked fine BEFORE the Standard PC mode... Least it's something new to try, and that's what I've needed....

Devon
Simple music philosophy - Those who can, make music. Those who can't, make excuses.
Read my VST reviews at Traxmusic!

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Worked fine for me on my KT7A-RAID motherboard. Never got around to putting it on the A7N8X, tho. Too sodding lazy I guess :)

Should really get around to it...
my other modular synth is a bugbrand

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Hi Sepheritoh,
thanks for the instructions - I'll give it a try.

I'm certainly asking myself if it is worth after all to go down the "Standard PC" route now, as it seems to be creating more problems for me than I anticipated. CM really made it sound like it was just a matter of doing the "update driver - choose Standard PC" routine, and everything else would just be fine after a reboot. As I wrote - it seems O.K. unless I use these pretty CPU-demanding plugins...

I just got an AMD Athlon XP2400+ pretty cheaply; I suppose it won't improve performance much (10-20% I imagine with my naive sort of reasoning), but -"every bit helps" said the old lady and pissed into the sea -

Thanks all for the input - I really appreciate the KvR Forums!

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Ya better know what the hell you're doing going down the Standard PC route. That's why the acpi mode is there, to make life easy. I'm sure some have gone trouble free, but mine didn't. With some bios playing, and features that are in my bios, I got it to completely cooperate. Some machines are more stubborn than others. :)

Devon
Simple music philosophy - Those who can, make music. Those who can't, make excuses.
Read my VST reviews at Traxmusic!

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whyterabbyt wrote:

5) This concerns performance: I used to be pretty happy with the performance of my computer until I got iZotope Trash and Ozone;... Is that normal?

These are both very CPU-intensive plugins, so I'd guess its normal.

Try bouncing tracks more often.

Occasionally, during tweaking of these high CPU demand presets, my computer crashes (yes, the computer, not just SONAR - I get a short hello from my motherboard, and then the PC starts to reboot..

That shouldnt really happen. It might be a problem with your soundcard drivers flaking out under excessive load... how low are your latency setttings...?
Some update on this issue - after reading through the Ozone manual and following some of their instructions, I found the solution to the crash problem. My buffer size was way to low for some ozone functions. After changing that (and thereby changing the latency) everything works well and is stable - I can now even run several Trash plugins and Ozone in parallel without stressing my CPU unduly. So whyterabbyt was on the right track here...

I suppose I will only have problems if I try to monitor recording in realtime - but then I'm not likely to use Ozone at the same time. I will also try using some less CPU-intensive plugins (like the simulanalog amp emulations) for the actual recordingto get the "feel" of the sound and then finetune it later with Trash if I feel I need to...

By the way, try this: I have a tube guitar preamp that I recorded straight by plugging it into my soundcard, then I used Trash for power amp crunch and speaker emulation. Works pretty well. You give up on some of the control over the distortion, but there is still a lot of room to tweak!
Cheers
Alex

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