Bitwig 5.2 BETA available

[] Peter:H []

I have watched the video on compressor+ on bitwig.com again. I still don't have a clue ... from "it's only multi-band analysis" over "per band upwards and downwards compression" up to "unified compression" this is all really disturbing pieces of "information" in one video ... I understand the urgent need for distinction of a niche company ... but I'm utterly puzzled whether all this goes in the right direction... only my personal opinion.
I really don't want to go PhD Thesis style individual re-engineering analysis to understand a commodity feature like compression... I have to honestly admit: this compressor+ is too much for me. Either I upgrade to Peter+ or better stick to bread & butter compressors which I understand.

Idk. You can use comp+ just like the normal comp. All the the additional knobs are optional, as far as I see it. If you want to dig deeper, you can.

I know that. But the "just slap a preset on it and your close to a number #1 in billboard charts" is not my approach. I want to understand what's going on at least a tiny bit and get to know what "the fuzz is all about". If I just slap it on a track and use it as if I would use the compressor device I can even use compressor first place and save some cpu cycles.
And my point actually was - the "information" in the "compressor+ explained" video left me puzzled. After the video I was more or less as clueless as before ... could be the video, or my lack of comprehension.
I have to admit that I haven't looked into the manual though, in order to check out whether I can get the "details" of the inner working rather than relly on guess work.
Anyway - No need to dicuss my lack of comprehension anymore. I think when reverb+ arrives in 5.3 I will buy me an upgrade to my brain to become Peter++ and then it will be no problem any longer

[Shifrin]

Hi all,

Anyone else having any graphical issues in Beta 1? I'm on Win10 x64 with a GTX 1060 GPU, latest nVidia drivers.

Firstly, when the cursor moves around the arrangement view, the text in a selected clip gets corrupted :-

BWS5.2-Beta1-2.png

Secondly, some of the devices aren't drawn correctly. Specifically certain elemnts of Sampler, Polymer, Phase 4, Filter+, Sweep, Compressor+ either don't have their background drawn, or it is partially drawn :-

BWS5.2-Beta1-1.png

Cheers!

[Shifrin]

I've emailed Bitwig with an error report

[pdxindy]

I've emailed Bitwig with an error report

[Trancit]

But comparing CPU use is pointless if you do not consider the (anti-)aliasing/quality/behavior, no? I mean you would not do that with a synth plugin and compare NI Pro53 (300 instances) to Repro-5 (20 instances) or Steinberg Virtual Bassist to IK MODO Bass or a simple low quality subtractive synth to something like Pigments/MassiveX ... or am I wrong?

So, if you set comp+ and presswerk to similar timing settings so that with a 5khz test-tone you get similar overtones, it is apparent that you have to compare comp+ to presswerk in HD mode; for the melda ones, I have to run it on 4x or 8x etc. on my m1 mac a couple of instances of comp+ actually use slightly less cpu than the same amount of presswerk HD and melda 8x. but so far we haven't talked about the differences in functionality or compression behavior. IMHO, this discussion is pointless, apart from saying "it uses similar resources to a comparable (bus) compressor".

Not necessarily...
Not everything in a track is (or can be) upfront... using highly oversampled and therefore cleaner sounding FX for background stuff is a complete unnecessary waste of resources...
Even worse: Aliasing isn´t always a bad thing and sometimes even wished...
So most of the time you wouldn´t even be able to hear if a sound is coming from the older Pro-53 or Repro-5 but by using Repro-5 unnecessarily you have just wasted valuable computer resources for nothing...
All this gets completely ignored by the Bitwig devs while with most of other products the user is in control and can decide himself when to use oversampling and when not...

I mean most of the times who cares about aliasing when compressing some hihats or a bright supersaw pad... this doesn´t make sense to have a general rule about oversampling if you want it or not...
That´s the biggest part I don´t like about Bitwig´s newer devices... you don´t have any saying over your own sounds because the Bitwig´s decided everything is oversampled without any user setting and I am sorry, I will not be dictated to this (often silly) general rule over my head...
So I just can change that by avoiding the devices for every use case it would be unnecessary...
Means 20% of the time I can happily use Bitwig devices while 80% I have to take something else to get the best out of my CPU amount without even sacrificing any sound quality ...
80% of the time it doesn´t make sense to use those oversampled devices because they decided you cannot turn it off even in situations where nobody on earth can make use out of it...
That´s what I pay 50-60,-€ for every update for??... Nope!

[pdxindy]

I mean most of the times who cares about aliasing when compressing some hihats or a bright supersaw pad... this doesn´t make sense to have a general rule about oversampling if you want it or not...

The Dynamics device works when higher quality isn't needed.

[Trancit]

I mean most of the times who cares about aliasing when compressing some hihats or a bright supersaw pad... this doesn´t make sense to have a general rule about oversampling if you want it or not...

The Dynamics device works when higher quality isn't needed.

And what works for the overly CPU intense Saturator??
What works for the unnecessarily steady oversampled Polymer??
What works for the unnecessarily steady oversampled Grids??

I am sorry... a simple user setting if OS is wished and active or not would be the far better way...
I.e. make a simple unison sound with a few chords and compare that to Abletons Wavetable to see that it takes 2-3 times as much CPU as the Ableton device with not the slightest sound advantage... just 2-3 times wasted resources...
It might be that you don´t care as you already said your projects and needs are simple but different people different needs... I do need to care for what I use more CPU or not as otherwise I would be in a neverending "render mania"...

[Jac459]

I mean most of the times who cares about aliasing when compressing some hihats or a bright supersaw pad... this doesn´t make sense to have a general rule about oversampling if you want it or not...

The Dynamics device works when higher quality isn't needed.

And what works for the overly CPU intense Saturator??
What works for the unnecessarily steady oversampled Polymer??
What works for the unnecessarily steady oversampled Grids??

I am sorry... a simple user setting if OS is wished and active or not would be the far better way...
I.e. make a simple unison sound with a few chords and compare that to Abletons Wavetable to see that it takes 2-3 times as much CPU as the Ableton device with not the slightest sound advantage... just 2-3 times wasted resources...
It might be that you don´t care as you already said your projects and needs are simple but different people different needs... I do need to care for what I use more CPU or not as otherwise I would be in a neverending "render mania"...

What do you call a complex project?
I feel mine are heavy and not optimised yet I don't have issue

[Trancit]

What do you call a complex project?
I feel mine are heavy and not optimised yet I don't have issue

I mean not necessarily very complex projects but lots of synths, reverbs and other stuff which usually takes up the most CPU resources...
If you never hit the wall... good for you... I do and don´t like to waste resources for nothing!
If it at least would serve any purpose... but blindly wasting??? That advanced our CPU´s still aren´t...

At the very end just answer a simple question:
Why do other developers care to not just blindly oversample everything but give the user the choice to do so if they wish???
Don´t you think there is a good reason why every developer out there cares about that??
Just in Bitwig... it seems too much to ask for ...

[vroteg]

…compare that to Abletons Wavetable to see that it takes 2-3 times as much CPU as the Ableton device with not the slightest sound advantage...

Careful. You can’t say “He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named” here…

[Trancit]

…compare that to Abletons Wavetable to see that it takes 2-3 times as much CPU as the Ableton device with not the slightest sound advantage...

Careful. You can’t say “He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named” here…

Sorry...

[_leras]

At the very end just answer a simple question:
Why do other developers care to not just blindly oversample everything but give the user the choice to do so if they wish???
Don´t you think there is a good reason why every developer out there cares about that??
Just in Bitwig... it seems too much to ask for ...

I haven't tried the new FX yet, but I do think Bitwig are struggling a bit with their FX strategy.

Generallly DAW FX should be CPU efficient. Perhaps some better quality FX are justified at times e.g. EQ+, a high quality compressor is probably also needed to compete with the cytomics comp in Ableton.

I feel where Bitwig misses here is just clarity in the position of each FX in it's range. The + versions have been very welcome as their first set were only ok. Bitwigs FX in general are pretty good now, but their range isn't completely clear (to me). They still miss some things like a good basic reverb, and the delays (feedback is amazing) don't really have great interfaces

I also don't think it helps too much that their most obvious rival Ableton has a large, well respected and growing FX suite. Must make it tricky for them to decide what to prioritise.

It doesn't matter too much to me directly as I am lucky enough to have great third party fx, but it is one are they could up their game a bit imo.

[spoontechnique]

Bitwig devices are, on the whole, CPU efficient. Delay+ has a great interface.

Besides a Reverb+, what is Bitwig really missing relative to Live? I would say not much. A real amp/pedal sim...a granular delay (Gridable)...beat repeat (Gridable or use Delay+)...a tuner...Pitch/Freq shift+...

Ableton does have cool effects, but Bitwig's containers and the Grid make up for most of them. Ableton also licenses several effects.

The only 3rd party FX I need right now are a tuner, an amp sim, and Kontakt for drum libraries.

[SLiC]

Bitwig devices are, on the whole, CPU efficient. Delay+ has a great interface.

Besides a Reverb+, what is Bitwig really missing relative to Live? I would say not much. A real amp/pedal sim...a granular delay (Gridable)...beat repeat (Gridable or use Delay+)...a tuner...Pitch/Freq shift+...

Ableton does have cool effects, but Bitwig's containers and the Grid make up for most of them. Ableton also licenses several effects.

The only 3rd party FX I need right now are a tuner, an amp sim, and Kontakt for drum libraries.

Looper and Drum Bus are a couple I miss in Bitwig. Roar is also something I use because it actually sounds better and is easier to get good results with than my 3rd party affects...that rare!

[spoontechnique]

I think Looper could be replicated with proper recording settings. If you think about it, the Clip Launcher is a looper.

Drum Bus is just a channel strip with some intuitive parameter names. I think it can be emulated in Bitwig with an FX Grid:

Comp toggle: A Comp/Comp+ with "fast attack, medium release and moderate ratio".
Input Distortion: an Over, Filter+ for the waveshaper, or a Grid distortion.
Crunch: this is a "sine-shaped distortion" applied to mid-high frequencies. I would say a 2 band split with a Transfer on the high band. Then perhaps a mix control to blend it into the dry signal.
Damp: a lowpass filter
Transients knob: the key thing is that the analysis only considers transients above 100hz. Comp+ would be perfect for this since you can turn down the low band analysis to 0. From there it's a matter of playing with the timing. Slower attack, and more or less ratio/release.
Low-end enhancement: this seems like a resonant peak filter. You'd need controls for the cutoff, resonance, and an envelope on the resonance.

It might be complex to build in a chain or the Grid, but once you build it, you can map the same simple parameters and save it as a preset. Voila, a decent drum buss alternative that you can tweak to your tastes. You can make a custom channel strip that you like more than drum buss. The tools are there!

For Roar, look at the actual structure of it. It's a waveshaper followed by a filter. That's Filter+! Now there's some details with the routing, but that's trivial to set up. 2 parallel stages, 2 serial stages, a stage for mid & one for side, 3 multiband stages...it's all just containers and Filter+! Feedback is a delay with a compressor in the feedback loop. We can put compressors in Delay+'s feedback loop! Now I think you'd have to use Long Delay in the Grid to precisely recreate feedback, but it's not hard to set up!

Bitwig deserves more credit for its effects. So much of this stuff is dead simple to create with containers or the Grid.